The OCU has begun the registration process on the territory of the Pochaev Lavra, which is used by the UOC. An OCU monastery was established there. Subsequently, it will become a legal entity to which they can transfer the property and premises of the Lavra. This is stated in an interview with the “Metropolitan” of Ternopil and Kremenets OCU Nestor with the Suspilne channel.

 

Recently, you are the Archimandrite of the Pochaev Lavra, what does this position mean?

 

The Holy Synod made a decision to create the Holy Dormition Pochaev Lavra Monastery within the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, and since it is located on the territory of the Ternopil diocese and will belong to it, I was given the title of Hieroarchimandrite of the Holy Dormition Pochaev Lavra. According to the tradition and structure of monastic life that is in force in our church today, the local bishop is the rector or hieroarchimandrite of all the monasteries located on the territory of this diocese. In particular, those monasteries of the Ternopil diocese that are already operating today have their own governors who manage these monasteries, but I reserve the title of hieroarchimandrite or abbot of these monasteries.

 

You made the decision to register on the territory of the Pochaev Lavra in the Synod. That is, it was a reasonable decision, you were preparing for it. And what are the next steps, what instances still have to go through these documents in order for this decision to become legally valid and how long it can take?

 

According to the legislation, the decision to open new monasteries is made by the Holy Synod of the Church, and it was at the last meeting of the Synod that such a decision was made. After that, the metropolia submits the appropriate package of documents to the State Ethnopolitics Service and, accordingly, the state service is already carrying out the first stage – the registration of the charter. Then the data about this legal entity is entered into the state register, the process of legal registration of documents takes place so that later the monastery has property either in ownership or in a lease agreement. The current process for the Pochaev Lavra is such that first the documents, first a legal entity, and then this legal entity will be able to claim the churches and other premises of the Pochaev Lavra, which are temporarily in the use of the Moscow Patriarchate.

 

Representatives of the Basilian Rite want the Pochaev Lavra to be returned to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. They appealed to the Ternopil Regional Council about this. In your opinion, to whom should the Lavra belong and which church should be the main one there?

 

The question of the Pochaev Lavra is indeed a very hot one. If we look in a historical perspective, who and when used the Holy Dormition Pochaev Lavra, then we will see here the Kiev Metropolis of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, we will see the Russian Church, we will see the Greek Catholic Church, then again the Russian Church. That is, just as the entire territory of Volyn passed from one state to another, so every state that owned that territory also laid claim to church life. At one time, Hagia Sophia was in the hands of the Greek Catholic Church, which they repeatedly reminded of, but on the other hand, the great shrines of the Greek Catholic Church were also Orthodox for a certain period, in particular the Univskaya Lavra, which is located on the territory of the Lviv region. Two-thirds of its history, from foundation to transition to the union, was Orthodox, but now it is not mentioned. The same can be said about the Ternopil Cathedral, about the Cathedral of St. let them be Orthodox now. Therefore, if we are talking about the Pochaev Lavra, then the vast majority of its history it was an Orthodox shrine. If we talk about those parishioners who go to the Lavra, those pilgrims who come to her, those surrounding towns and villages in this region – in southern Volyn, then we see that this is all a completely Orthodox region. On the territory of the Volyn part of our region, the Greek Catholic Church has almost no communities, almost no parishes, almost no parishioners. If we talk about how the Pochaev Lavra is perceived by the people precisely by pilgrims, then we understand that for everyone in perception it will always be an Orthodox shrine.

 

But when this church becomes Ukrainian, will different churches be able to coexist there and hold their services?

 

Here it is necessary to separate two separate moments – the monastic life and divine services and prayers. When we talk about monastic life, we often hear from people: “Let’s take turns using the monastery.” Well, it’s impossible. Because these are the cells in which people live, this is the place where they are constantly located and it is impossible to live in an apartment alternately, that one family lives half a day, and another lives half a day, or vice versa. Therefore, when we talk about monastic life, it is of course that, in my opinion, there can be no other thoughts here – it should be a monastery operating as part of a single church, and since this monastery is Orthodox, after all, it must belong to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. But of course, many pilgrims come to the Pochaev Lavra, and many among the pilgrims were those who belonged to both the OCU and the UGCC. They could not confess there, take communion. Immediately the first question to them was: “Which church do you go to?”, and if not to that church, then these people were expelled. Of course, this is absolutely wrong, because God accepts everyone and if a person comes, then you need to accept him with love. If we are talking about the fact that entire pilgrimage groups will come, for example, led by priests from the Greek Catholic Church and will have a desire to pray there, to perform divine services, then I think that we will gladly accept them.

 

In your opinion, what will happen to the brethren of the Lavra, will they want to transfer to the Orthodox Church of Ukraine?

 

 

When the trial of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra began, and when the brethren of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra were notified – whoever wants to remain in the Moscow Patriarchate must leave the walls of the monastery, and whoever came for salvation and wants to pray for Ukraine, stay in the Ukrainian church – may stay. We see that some, the most pro-Russian ones, left immediately, some are now looking for another building, but some of the brethren nevertheless decided to stay and prolong their prayer within the walls of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, because this is the monastery in which they were tonsured . . I think that the same will happen with the Pochaev Lavra. That is, those who are pro-Russian will not be able to stay, even if they want to disguise themselves somewhere, let’s say, pretend to be Ukrainians, I don’t think that they will succeed in this successfully and for a long time. Only those who really did not engage in political struggle, but simply came to pray and who, probably, in their hearts and would like the Lavra to be a Ukrainian shrine, prayed for this, and today we see that their prayers have been heard, and these things are being done, they will gladly stay and continue their spiritual work, prayer and construction of the monastery. Therefore, I do not worry that the Pochaev Lavra will remain empty, I do not think that all the brethren will leave, even for sure, just like in the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, some of those who left from the beginning are now returning, because they did not leave. because they wanted to remain in the Moscow Patriarchate, but because they worried and feared for their safety, knowing how the MP treats those who do not share their views. I think that they will all return and we will have a large, powerful, strong monastery, which will no longer be pro-Russian, will pray for Ukraine, for the victory of our Armed Forces, for a better future for our people and our state.

 

And what about believers, parishioners of the UOC-MP?

 

There are those who go there because it is the Moscow Patriarchy. Of course, they will stop going there or coming. And there are those who go to the Pochaev Lavra solely as a shrine, and they distance themselves from all the political agitation that takes place there. We know that many representatives of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, both parishioners and clergymen, regularly walk as pilgrims from Ternopil and other cities to the Pochaev Lavra just to pray there, because for them it is a great shrine. We will see that these people will visit and pray more often at the Pochaev Lavra, because there will not be that pro-Russian agitation, they will not be expelled from confession and communion, they will be able to come and fully pray, fully participate in worship. Thus, I think that the number of parishioners will not decrease, but only increase.

 

Being on the territory of the Lavra, we talked with parishioners, some of them say that if there is another church there – Orthodox or Greek Catholic – they will not visit the shrine. In your opinion, how can people be encouraged to go to the Ukrainian church and pray in Ukrainian?

 

It should be understood that these people were formed and grew spiritually precisely in the environment of the Moscow Patriarchate. And the Moscow Patriarchate, along with all the heritage of the holy fathers, with the great spiritual experience of the church that they drew from there, pushed through its political component and convinced that everyone except them, enemies, everyone except them, are wrong. Due to this, the Moscow Patriarchate is still holding on so tightly in Ukraine. But, of course, not everyone is like that. And even those who perceive it this way, after a while, looking at how the situation is developing in the Pochaev Lavra, how people who are parishioners or pilgrims continue to pray and nothing bad happens to them, they do not fall away from God, stones from the sky do not fall on them there, that they grow spiritually. I think that these parishioners will reconsider their views and it is quite possible that in due time they will become the most zealous. I think that they will still remember what people they belong to, on the territory of which state they live. And they will continue to pray, having already reviewed their views, rejecting everything that concerns Moscow. They will simply save themselves and pray for their people, for their state.

 

 

And what is your opinion about the Pochaev Theological Seminary, what will happen to students and teachers, can they join the Ukrainian church?

Even among the Moscow Patriarchate itself, the Pochaev Seminary is reputed to be one of the most radically anti-Ukrainian, that the pupils of this seminary absolutely do not perceive the Ukrainian idea. But I think that all these things can easily be changed if there is no influence from Russia, if all these narratives do not continue to be imposed on them, then those teachers and students who came for the sake of science, for the sake of education, for the sake of developing the theologian in these things will be reviewed, nevertheless they will show common sense and will be ready to change their educational policy and become an educational institution of the Ukrainian church. Let’s see, it’s up to them. The doors of our church are open for them and we are ready to receive them.

 

Do you plan to hold divine services on the territory of the Lavra even before the start of the official transfer, as it was in Kyiv? As far as I understand, these were one-time contracts for worship.

 

Before our church got the opportunity to celebrate these services in the Assumption Cathedral or in the Refectory Church of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, the relevant agreements on use with the Moscow Patriarchate were terminated. If the relevant agreements are terminated for some of the churches of the Pochaev Lavra and they return to the full possession of the state, of course, we will ask for permission to hold services there, so that prayers can be held there in Ukrainian. Perhaps this will also become an impetus for those people who, at first, perhaps, will come out of curiosity, and then they will begin to go more often or attend services in the Pochaev Lavra in Ukrainian and pray for Ukraine more often. In Pochaev, the monastery of the Moscow Patriarchate owns the entire complex of the Pochaev Lavra, so if the relevant agreements are broken or any changes are made, this will apply to the entire complex, so this process is much more complicated. Moreover, we understand that there will be more resistance to this decision in the Pochaev Lavra, because even today we see St. Nicholas Cathedral on the territory of our region, in the city of Kremenets, whose contract for use was completed on February 12, until Until now, representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate have not left the temple. They actually barricaded themselves there and are not going to come out.

Have you already communicated with someone in the Lavra, was there any official reaction to your registration there?

 

To date, there are no official appeals or official contacts, although there are unofficial contacts with representatives of the brethren of the Pochaev Monastery, and we can say with confidence that there are some who are really Ukrainians there, who want the Ukrainian church to be there and they are just waiting for these decisions will take effect. Now we live in a time when all these processes are taking place very dynamically and it may well be that something will change in the near future, so we just pray and hope that these processes, according to Pochaev, will take place more peacefully and calmly, than in the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra. Although, unfortunately, there is no certainty in this.

 

Representatives of the public council under the Ternopil Regional Military Administration, which is studying the legality of the use of the Pochaev Lavra by the Moscow Patriarchate, say that when the UOC is evicted, property from the Lavra can be illegally taken out. What relics of the Pochaev Lavra are of national importance and how to prevent their export?

 

The Kiev-Pechersk Lavra and the Pochaev Lavra were transferred to the use of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate on different terms. If the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra was a museum at that moment, all the property was taken into account, checked by art historians. If the agreement on the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra is terminated, you can clearly say: “What property you received, you must return. What is yours – you can take away what you have received – you must return. So, in the Pochaev Lavra, this situation was much more complicated, there the transfers took place very hastily and without the appropriate paperwork. In practice, to put it bluntly, only the walls were transferred to the metropolitan patriarchy according to documents and descriptions. The property was absolutely not taken into account, the book value of the Pochaev Lavra is one million two hundred thousand hryvnias, that is, this is a ridiculous amount, not only today, but even at that time. Today, if you just chop off your shoulder and say: “Come on, we terminate all contracts, take everything that is yours and leave,” they can take with them absolutely everything that is within these walls. Here we are talking about the relics of the Monk Job, Amphilochia, the Pochaev icon, and other icons that have not only great spiritual, but also historical and material value. To prevent this, a state commission should probably be created, which, using old documents, photographs, videotapes, will establish the property that was in the Pochaev Lavra at the time before the transfer to the Moscow Patriarchate. It will establish the value of this property and demand that it not be taken out in any way. Therefore, this issue is not only a church one, but also a state one, because these are all-Ukrainian shrines that the whole world knows.

 

We all see how events are unfolding in the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra. In your opinion, will there be any conflicts during the transfer of the Pochaev Lavra? And how can this issue be resolved peacefully?

 

If these issues are resolved by fanatical people, it will not be possible to avoid confrontations. But we hope that, nevertheless, people who have common sense will make a decision about this, understanding that the shrines are not theirs, that they belong to the whole people, that they do not belong specifically to the Moscow Patriarchate, and that, perhaps, it would be more reasonable for them together go with the monastery to the OCU, stay at the shrines, pray there, save themselves there. When the transfer of the Pochaev Lavra from the Moscow Patriarchate to the Ukrainian Church takes place, we will offer the brethren to stay. It is possible that common sense will win and those people who stay there can somehow convince those people who are fanatically inclined that it is better to stay in a monastery, in a Ukrainian church, than to create some kind of conflicts, struggle, confrontation, which is simply discredits and harms the entire church in general, and not just the Moscow Patriarchate. We hope for such people that there will be enough of them to convince others.